Curse

Sirius Bsns · Dec 08, 2010, 08:20 PM // 20:20

As the title implies, this thread is solely about posting what you think might be a viable way to boost elemental damage for hard mode while keeping HM monsters the same [unbuffed].

PVE ONLY:
One idea that came to my mind is to make Energy Storage investment increase damage of elemental spells by 3% and extend elemental hexes by 5% for every two points in the Energy Storage.

This would be a good start, and if the damage is still to weak, then the numbers could simply be tweaked up just a little bit. By making it an Energy Storage thing, this may keep HM elementalist monsters from recieving the same buff, but I really don't know whether monsters actually have an E.Storage level of their own... so... *shrugs*

What're your thoughts on my idea? Do you have any other suggestions that might help give Arena net something to chew on in hopes of making nukers more viable in HM? Have at it!

Xsiriss · Dec 08, 2010, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Sure, and whilst your at it give them maybe 10% armour penetration per rank of ES...OWAIT.

They need a buff fo' sure but that's a little extreme plus the whole extention of elemental hexes is a bit...weird. 1% AP per level of ES (capped at say 15 to prevent HM rape) should be fine and maybe buff the raw capabilities of some skills along the ES attribute.

Kronk_Shaan · Dec 08, 2010, 09:27 PM // 21:27

This may not help, but my suggestion only involves the skills used. I have religiously used a E/Me hero set to 14 fire, 12 es and 5 insp., sac nuking with savannah heat and a few other cheap skills (liquid flame, breath of fire, leech sig, etc) since we first got heros at NF release.

I have through trial and error discovered that earth henchies hit harder (nm or hm) than my fire hero. I have since switched to an earth build with eruption, churning earth and unsteady ground...plus a few others of course. I am amazed at the difference in the speed with which I wade through bad guys, compared to the fire build.

My wife, who plays an ele as her primary, would love to see them buffed, but I can't think of anything that can be done to the class that wouldn't break them, even if PvE only.

Mouse at Large · Dec 08, 2010, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Discussed

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/l...t10438663.html

and discussed

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/c...t10458925.html

All we need now is Anet to listen.......

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 08, 2010, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

As the title implies, this thread is solely about posting what you think might be a viable way to boost elemental damage for hard mode while keeping HM monsters the same [unbuffed].

PVE ONLY:
One idea that came to my mind is to make Energy Storage investment increase damage of elemental spells by 3% and extend elemental hexes by 5% for every two points in the Energy Storage.

Huh? Didn't you just say you wanted to leave HM monsters untouched? iirc all foes in HM have 20 in their primary attribute.

Skye Marin · Dec 08, 2010, 09:50 PM // 21:50

If anything, I'd like a change to Intensity that:

Can be maintained, but is expensive to do so or causes exhaustion.
Does extra AP damage to foes with high armor
OR does extra AP damage to foes with high levels
OR makes elemental damage from spells armor-ignoring at a certain point

Nothing to make them more effective in NM, but enough extra power to make them better damage dealers in HM, especially if changes to Assassin's Promise are coming.

Ailina · Dec 08, 2010, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Sure, and whilst your at it give them maybe 10% armour penetration per rank of ES...OWAIT.

They need a buff fo' sure but that's a little extreme plus the whole extention of elemental hexes is a bit...weird. 1% AP per level of ES should be fine and maybe buff the raw capabilities of some skills.

There already is a primary attribute that adds +1% AP per level: Strength. Your idea basically means that Energy storage would become Strength + its functionality right now. That's just silly.

jazilla · Dec 08, 2010, 10:39 PM // 22:39

i play an ele primary in pve and you really can't make them into what they were intended to be when GW1 came out. If all classes stayed the same as they are now and you buffed the Elementalist to be the "Nuker", this game would be laughably easier than it is now and that would be a bad thing. Do I think they need a buff? IDK. I honestly think most every other class needs to be hit with the nerf crotch bat.

Lord Mip · Dec 08, 2010, 11:12 PM // 23:12

I think only Fire magic should be buffed in PvE. Earth is still viable through control and wards, air is good because of ArPen and Water is generally only used for PvP anyway.
Still, I wish they'd change something to the Ele so that they become better damagedealers than healers again. (Though I don't think anything's gonna change about them given the current state of the live team)

Bright Star Shine · Dec 08, 2010, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

i play an ele primary in pve and you really can't make them into what they were intended to be when GW1 came out. If all classes stayed the same as they are now and you buffed the Elementalist to be the "Nuker", this game would be laughably easier than it is now and that would be a bad thing. Do I think they need a buff? IDK. I honestly think most every other class needs to be hit with the nerf crotch bat.

Laughably easier? You serious? Even more easy? I mean, you can roll through this game butt naked, without any skills or weapons and you still beat it in a week..
Ok, that's exaggerated, but Ele's WERE designed to nuke the shit out of things.. That was what they were for..
Necro's: Make minions, SS shit, semi-nuker
Mesmer: Hex stuff, damage with Esurge, semi-nuker
Monk: Heal shit, maybe smite stuff, but no-one really cared bout that..
Warrior: Tank shit, but still some nice damage
Ranger: Trap shit, use spirit support, a pet, perhaps barrage could do something but that was meh aswell at the start..
Ele: BOMB SHIT TO OBLIVION (and tank every now and then)

That was the original intention.. Now with the mesmers and necro's wiggling their humongous Armor-ignoring damage penises around, no-one even cares about eles doing damage, they're just there to (OH EM GEE, i said it again!) BOND SHIT..
Armor ignoring damage IS NO FAIR competition, seriously.. Either make ele armor ignoring, but still beat it some with the nerf stick so it doesn't go imba like hell (that would completely destroy the concept ele though) or lower the AR from some monsters against ele damage (exept lich lord, he's lol when triple MS'ed, even less and he'd die of a flare) or just increase the damn things and STOP SCATTER FFS those are the three options, but Anet cba cause they got their asses stuffed with GW2...

Xsiriss · Dec 08, 2010, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

i play an ele primary in pve and you really can't make them into what they were intended to be when GW1 came out. If all classes stayed the same as they are now and you buffed the Elementalist to be the "Nuker", this game would be laughably easier than it is now and that would be a bad thing. Do I think they need a buff? IDK. I honestly think most every other class needs to be hit with the nerf crotch bat.

Oh my god people like you are still around? QQ moar. The power creep of skills made the game easier over the years but that doesn't mean you should nerf the shit out of everything remotely powerful to make everything equally medicore (Hell unless you're playing with a full team of human players HM can be pretty tough).

jazilla · Dec 09, 2010, 01:30 AM // 01:30

i am not QQ'ing at all lol. sorry if I gave that vibe off. I am saying that if you left every class to do the damage that it currently does, and then buffed eles so that they did the most damage of any class, this game would be easier than it already is.

@Bright Star Shine: Re-read my post man. I am saying it would be easier than it is now, and you are arguing with me with the tone of your post, but the words you typed are in agreement with me saying that the game would be easier. Am I missing something?

@xsiriss: Again, not QQ'ing at all. I roll my ele all the time and I don't see a problem with damage at all. Is it a problem that in my opinion, damage in PvE across the board is 100% acceptable the way it is at this moment in the pve portion of the game? Well I think that Shadow Form should have a mandatory 15 second cooldown, but that is a thread for a different topic.

Sirius Bsns · Dec 09, 2010, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Huh? Didn't you just say you wanted to leave HM monsters untouched? iirc all foes in HM have 20 in their primary attribute.

Ouch... So that means that all Ele monsters would benefit from my idea as well? If that's the case, we'd have to come up with some sort of way to make elementalists deal better damage and extend their hex durations in order to make them more viable. I'm now thinking that maybe some PvE-only skills can be changed around to support this. For example, how about buffing Intensity and Elemental Lord? Intensity for instance, can be buffed to: [skill *as opposed to enchantment] a 25...50% damage, but slap on it the requirement of being enchanted (which Attunement + AoR can easily cover). What do you think?

Lanier · Dec 09, 2010, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Oh my god people like you are still around? QQ moar. The power creep of skills made the game easier over the years but that doesn't mean you should nerf the shit out of everything remotely powerful to make everything equally medicore (Hell unless you're playing with a full team of human players HM can be pretty tough).

power creep is bad. Not because it makes the game easier but because it limits the diversity of builds. Remember when Wanderlust was used on Spirit Spammers? It was never nerfed but it isn't used anymore because of power creep.

Nerfs are good. They reverse power creep.

Shriketalon · Dec 09, 2010, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Tie it to specific skills.

Intensity, Glyph of Essence, or Glyph of Elemental Power would be good candidates. Or take worthless skills and turn them into element-specific armor penetration, so things like Swirling Aura, Iron Mist, Elemental Flame, and Arc Lightning would boost the power of that attribute.

That way, eles have to pay for their boost via their skillbar, but they get the kick they need.

LifeInfusion · Dec 09, 2010, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

power creep is bad. Not because it makes the game easier but because it limits the diversity of builds. Remember when Wanderlust was used on Spirit Spammers? It was never nerfed but it isn't used anymore because of power creep.

Nerfs are good. They reverse power creep.

I remember when Ether Renewal + Zealot's fire smiters got nerfed. That's the origin of the "ether renewaled" phrase.

Divine Boon got hit and Light of Deliverance as well. Heaven's Delight used to heal for 200 HP in earshot on 15 recharge, but there was no pve-only UA to boost it at the time. Holy wrath got hit a bit for 600 monks: now you need to recast. Shadow prison was particularly bad with sins in PvP plus who can forget ursan?

Nerfs tend to be good when it's all people run (I'm looking at you SoS!) because other options fall short by a large amount. I'd like to see Searing flames, scythes on sins, Ineptitude (damage) and Ancestor's rage hit (make a-rage not armor ignoring, turn SF to more pressure by lengthening burning and lowering damage).

EDIT: to put it in perspective, back in 2005 it took 3-4 hours to do FoW. Right now we have speedclears of 30min...

EDIT2: the reason why ele damage is subpar is because some mobs have insane armor and a level bonus. Even against those with normal armor you do 60-70% of listed damage rather than 80-90% on casters. You don't have this problem as much with lightning orb since it has cracked armor AND 25% armor penetration ( I regularly hit for more than listed damage on casters ... 120-140 with 16 air).

AndrewSX · Dec 09, 2010, 07:30 AM // 07:30

The real problem is that if your ele in HM can't deal enough damage to be used instead a necro/mes/rit, your only option is change your playstyle to support the party....but consider that other profs do it better(enfeeble bond>enervanting charge/ebon falcon and so on....) and the 80-90% of ele's spell are only intended to do damage...what's left to us? ER Bonding? AP EVAS spam? Maybe Blinding surge(but probably you'll run Ineptitude)? Most of eles i've seen now run SoS, thanks to e-storage that allows to spam spirits that die fast for lacking of spawning power. Its full of E/Rt around.
This is the point:eles can'y do respectable damage, but also can't support enough good to be regularly used. Also some skill are ridicoulos(Second wind and iron mist, first two that comes to mind). It's not QQing, just looking at facts.
It isn't what i want to play when i created my ele(and choosed it as main...).

And if anet will nerf also ER healer and AP(like someone said)...i really can't imagine what to do.

Lord Mip · Dec 09, 2010, 08:58 AM // 08:58

We'd be flare spamming

Rushin Roulette · Dec 09, 2010, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Sounds like you are trying to focus on Fire Nuking in HM which is kind of useless and short sighted.

If you think that the only things Eles are capable of doing is Fire Nuking, Spirit pooping or AP Caller, then you really should consider choosing a different proffession as your main.

Eles are excelent at controlling enemy movement with Water skills (Also has decent amount of damage in them while snaring AoE) and to a certain extent Earth.
Eles also excell at single target spiking with Air Spells, quite a few of them have built in Armor penetration which you seem to think Eles lack. Air is also great for messing up Melee (BSurge comes readily to mind).
Earth Spells have great Damage mitigation through wards and Churnign Earth is one of the only AoE Skills in HM that doesnt really cause scatter (Anything trying to scatter gets automatically knocked down as they always move faster than normal).

Why stick to Fire when you have sooo much choice? Its like complaining that Rits are crap at dealing damage because the Resto line is not good for that.

AndrewSX · Dec 09, 2010, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Sounds like you are trying to focus on Fire Nuking in HM which is kind of useless and short sighted.

Nobody said "Fire sucks in HM buff it".

About water to control enemy movement...how many times in PvE is this useful? 3-4(aurora glade and moddok crevice...)?

Quote:

Eles also excell at single target spiking with Air Spells

Discord says "hello".

About earth and air lines(that mean 2 lines on 4 are useless), their secondary effects(blinding, KD..) is good, but damage don't: you have a so-so damage and a so-so condition/enemy control. Things that other can do better.
Condition from Air is really too much single-target, and everything useful in Earth(like in the others lines) have at least a 2/3-sec casting time(churning earth, eruption, dragon stomp....)..in HM this means "Take this!oh, you're there now?"

P.S:yes, in HM fire(and nuke in general) sucks.